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How a Podcast Guru Turned LinkedIn Into His Top Producing Marketing Channel

Rex Biberston
Feb 23, 2021 10:30:26 AM

Growth Marketing Camp, Ep. 5

How a Podcast Guru Turned LinkedIn Into His Top Producing Marketing Channel

If you’re considering starting a podcast for your company (or even yourself) you’re bound to run into content by James Carbary’s team at Sweet Fish Media. They’re the brand of choice and known for producing shows for unicorns like Outreach. But James learned the power of LinkedIn and on this episode he breaks down tactical execution of a play that you’ll want to try on your own team.

He uncovers the power of personal brand, individual reach, and supplying team members with resources to amplify their voice & your brand’s voice by extension on LinkedIn.

 
powered by Sounder

 

Here's what you can expect on today's episode

  • 6:00 - Sweet Fish Media's internal LinkedIn evangelist program
  • 11:40 - 90 day revenue attribution from LinkedIn 
  • 17:00 - The power of sticking to one topic to jumpstart growth
  • 20:00 - Make your podcast about your ideal buyer 
  • 24:00 - What's one thing marketers should start / stop doing

Read the full transcript:

All right. Welcome to another episode of the Growth Marketing Camp. James Carbary, my good friend and CEO of Sweet Fish Media is joining us today. James, welcome to the show man. Thank you so much, man. I'm pumped to dive into this. It's going to be fun now. I know some of our listeners out there going to be wondering, wait a second.

 You said this is Growth Marketing Camp. Why is a CEO on a marketing show? But the thing is growth marketing. Isn't a title. And James, I know you believe this. It is a freaking mentality. Yeah. Growth marketing is something that you embody that you're portraying. I know we're gonna break down one of the campaigns and ways that you've done this with your own team.

But I don't know. Give me a little take on that. How do you feel as a CEO be known as a marketer? I love it. Especially with Dave Gerhardt, shouting all over the internet right now that don't go work for a CEO that doesn't get marketing. And I have the marketer on our team.

Dan Sanchez tells me all the time how grateful he is or that he works for a CEO  that actually gets it, which is. Obviously super it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. And  I think so much about like our, you know, strategic narrative and how we're going to market and our brand.

And I just think that's really important. It's funny to me that a lot of CEOs don't think that way, but they also come up, from. Building product and  a lot of folks are just very product centric CEOs and I'm sure that I'm missing a lot of elements in our business because I don't come from that world either.

So it's easy to think. Oh, because I get marketing, I'm like, I'm a better CEO that understands product better. And that's obviously that's not the case, but . I'm obviously biased. because I came up,from, you know, I, I had to learn marketing when I built my first product years and years ago.

And that's what got me, you know, So talk to us about that. What got you hooked on marketing? How did you get into this space that you're in now? So I built a product back in 2013 called Worth Day Planner.com. The site's not even alive anymore, but it was basically a tool that it was a B2C product that helps you plan really cool days for people that you wanted to celebrate.

As a way to celebrate people without waiting for a birthday or an anniversary or a special occasion.  And so we had been planning these days for people at our church and different friends of ours manually. And I was like, man, it'd be really cool to build a tool that could do all the heavy lifting of this planning.

So met a developer,  started to build the product. And he was like, Hey, I'm going to have this product built in about five or six months, but we're not going to have any customers unless you go figure out how to do marketing. So I dove head first. And just started, watching courses on Facebook Ads and obviously B2C marketing is a whole different beast than B2B marketing.

But it was during that season of life that I really fell in love with content marketing, this idea of just helping people, trying to create content that would genuinely help people. And if you could help the right people, they would ultimately want to do business with you if a need came up. And  so that's what got me super into content marketing.

And then, started the agency shortly after that, we were a blog post writing agency for the first year and then pivoted into podcasting after realizing, you know , this content based networking idea of man, we can ask anybody, we want it to be a guest on the show and they'll say, yes ended up being a really next level ABM play that worked out really well for us.

Yeah. That's interesting. Just looking back to your history. So I fell in love with content marketing by listening to a podcast, interestingly enough, from a guy called Marcus Sheridan and he called himself The Sales Lion, he really opened my eyes to the power of content marketing.

And so it's fascinating to have you on the show and have that experience kind of common background. So let's talk about what you guys currently do at Sweet Fish, because I think this will be particularly interesting for those of our guests who have not yet heard of you, but I think many of them will have heard of you.

What sweet fish, who do you guys serve? Yeah, so we serve B2B, SAS, marketers, primarily  and we are helping them produce podcasts. So we produce podcasts for B2B brands. We're doing shows  for Terminus and for outreach and for a lot of the B2B SAAS companies  that you've heard of.

And we're the production team behind the scenes bringing their shows to life. Which I can tell you as a whole thing, as we've learned here at Opensense, but that's incredible. Great. So maybe let's let's dive into this campaign idea. Now yours is not  like a, Hey, we ran this ad for this period of time and here's the results you got.

We're talking about something much bigger. And as you've mentioned, you shifted from blog writing as a company to now service for podcasting, but even within what you guys have done, you've shifted from this idea of podcasting and added on, let's say you certainly haven't abandoned in any way the podcasting channel, but you've added on a new channel.

So break down what that is and you know why that's become powerful for you? Yeah. So a few years ago I realized that LinkedIn, when I wrote from my personal profile, not from our company profile,  figured out that my LinkedIn content was doing really well. I remember a post getting like over a hundred thousand views and I was just like, this is insane.

If I had a YouTube video that got a hundred thousand views on it, I like, I wouldn't know what to do with myself. And  LinkedIn, , this platform full of B2B marketers. Our ideal buyers was  my content was getting a lot of reach and I noticed that a lot of other people were getting a lot of reach on their content as well.

Yeah. And so I stayed consistent. I grew my following there. And I ended up going through a really unfortunate situation with, a business partner and just fell off the wagon for, I don't know, maybe a year and a half. Possibly even two years where I wasn't posting as consistently.

Sure. But I noticed that  during that time, a lot of other people, Chris Walker started getting really strong on LinkedIn. That's when I started seeing Dave Gerhardt pop up a lot on LinkedIn. So a lot of people that were trying to talk to the same people I was talking to were starting to really make their name on LinkedIn.

It's a lot of people in the sales space that were jumping onto the platform.  And so probably, maybe just under a year ago, we started a LinkedIn Evangelist program at Sweet Fish where we said, Hey, instead of just me posting what if we started to pair different creatives on our team? Designers, videographers, writers pair people with.

Employees in our company that wanted to build their personal brand while simultaneously helping our company. And what if we paired those two things together so that we can have multiple people on our team producing content from their personal profile on a very regular basis. Let me pause you right there, because I think where you are six steps ahead of the average marketer these days, right?

Like thinking about the future. Most marketing teams or let's say most leadership teams and most marketers use that I know of personally, like from a corporate standpoint, Have not even really encouraged, their internal folks to do anything with LinkedIn, right? This is not even a channel to a lot of these folks, unless they're thinking about as LinkedIn ads, LinkedIn ads is a total.

It's like having two different channels, right? That's a place where things get distributed. Sure. But there's this secret underground channel that's really full of millions of people who are actively engaging in content. So what you're talking about is not just saying. Hey guys share our posts, like our posts from our corporate page, or Hey, comments on stuff that James on.

Maybe we'll get a few more followers you're talking about actively supporting with production quality stuff and people,  the efforts of your own internal team members and not only marketers. Correct. Yes that's absolutely correct.  Right now we have got when we first started it, we had our COO writing content.

He's not as, he's not doing it as much anymore, but he had he was paired with a writer on our team and he would do some podcast interviews on B2B growth and the writer would listen to those interviews and turn it into status updates. We've got our director of audience growth, Dan, who has really taken and .

Run with the program, Dan is sharing, some gold, by the way, for marketers out there listening, you got to follow Dan. What's Dan's last name? Dan Sanchez. So it's, I think linkedin.com/in/digital marketing, Dan. But he's been crushing it. He's been doing like three posts a day. We've got our designers doing gifs and memes.

 We're doing a lot of micro video stuff. Logan Lyles is on our team. He's our VP of customer experience. He's been posting a lot of great content as well. We started some engagement groups with some people say his black hat. I don't really think there's anything wrong with getting a group of people together that want to engage with one another's content.

They don't work nearly as well now, and you have to switch them up pretty frequently because people just tune them out. But there's lots of. Little nuances, engaging with other people's content. Like I was talking to a guy at lunch today, actually  he's in the recruiting space.

And so his audience is college students.  He helps college students find jobs and he was like, James, for the last month. He was like, I've shut off all my Facebook ads. And all I'm doing is LinkedIn organic. And what I'm doing is I'm going to like the three or four big people in my space that are writing content and getting tons of engagement.

I read their posts. I leave a super long comment. That's really thoughtful. That's based on something they said, and my comments ended up getting lots of likes and  lots of engagement. And then he actually takes the people that are liking that post. And he puts them into a LinkedIn funnel that he's created specifically in the channel, getting them to basically a discovery call.

And then he is using the comments that perform the best and  then he goes and creates his own content. And he said that those posts always ended up getting a hundred plus engagements and thousands of views because he's already vetted it and knows that people are going to resonate with it because he.

Kind of is riding the coat tail of the visibility of the influencers posts. So even, we're not even doing that stuff. That's like a little mini masterclass you just gave up on that. That's great. So I, he got my brain racing on how we could be doing that better. Dan does that to a certain degree.

Dan's looking at, what's Chris Walker, posting, what's Dave Gerhardt posting. He leaves a lot of thoughtful comments on posts like that. And then. Uses that to inform what content he's going to be creating. You're seeing companies like Gravy. I think Gravy is a service provider that helps you reduce churn, but through  failed payments on credit cards and  their CEO has been big on LinkedIn for the last couple of years, I think.

And they've got multiple people on their team that are doing it. You're seeing tech companies like Clary. Gong, I think Outreach is doing... Dawn has been crushing LinkedIn game for as long as I've even had them on my radar, but recently last year, just incredible growth. Yeah.  And you're seeing it from across the organization, right?

You've got folks like Devin Reed and marketing, Chris Orlob, who was in marketing. And now in sales Sarah Brazier, who is one of their SDR. Now she's an AE. Just  these folks that are building incredible personal brands on the back of this platform, but are also greatly beneficial to their company as well.

And I saw Scott Barker from Outreach and Sales Hacker. He mentioned something I guess this was a few months ago that he, he's like, I legitimately think that hiring managers. A year and a half, maybe two years from now are going to be looking at what is your reach of your LinkedIn of your personal LinkedIn profile?

And we'll be using that as a measuring stick on whether they want to hire you or not. Because I think the activation of personal brands of your employees is it's so much more human. It's so much more authentic than a post from a company's page. That gets very little engagement. You even look at what  Chris Walker will get.

30,000 views on a particular post, and then his company will post something that's equally as good. And it'll get a fraction of that. So there's something about the algorithm that is depressing the company content that, that a logo is posting. Yeah, because I think the, LinkedIn knows that people are going to resonate with a human's content way more than they're going to resonate with a company's content.

Yeah, and I mean, that's always been the case. So one thing that I want to pull out of our conversation about LinkedIn and the way that you've been activating your team members is how it actually corresponds to revenue growth. Because the big risk here, I will tell you that a lot of marketers and sales leaders have pushed back on, the idea of LinkedIn as a channel.

Is that, Hey, that's where, you know, that's where my team members go to mess around or to go follow somebody else or like they go and they waste time on LinkedIn, but this can actually directly impact revenue. I know we'll share your example, but just, you mentioned Sarah Brazier. Who's going to be, by the time this airs, she will have been a.

Webinar co-host with me. She actually sold to me. We bought Gong and totally unplanned purchase because she saw something I shared on LinkedIn. She was an active personality. Somebody who I knew, , not directly, but she reached out to me because of something I posted. I had already heard of her. I'd already seen her.

We engaged. And my gosh, it was incredible sales process because they have a great product that backs up exactly what she does and says on LinkedIn. So they married really well. That personality. With the brand and the product just happened to be a perfect fit at the right time because she was paying attention.

But let's talk about on your end, the example you recently shared, I'm a part of the email newsletter that you send out on occasion here. I think you're up to like weekly now, but it's always a blast. And one of the ones that. It's going to blow people away. It's just the revenue attribution from the LinkedIn channel.

So talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah. So We recently pulled a report in HubSpot, and I don't know why we haven't been looking into this longer, but for whatever reason we haven't.  And we were looking at the last 90 days, and of all of the channels, so we've got our agency partnerships, we've got guests from our show, we've got listeners of our podcast, referrals, current customers...  When we look at across all of the channels that new business comes to us in, LinkedIn drove 9 deals at just over $216,000 in revenue over the last 90 days. Our second highest channel was referrals and it was 3 referrals over the last 90 days at just over $84,000.

So when you're looking at the difference of our second highest lead source was three times less, a third of what LinkedIn produced for our business. So when I saw that I put it in the newsletter, which is why you mentioned it here, but  it blew me away. And I was like, man, I need to be, I'm like sporadically posting myself one, maybe two times a week.

I need to get more consistent about posting every day on that platform, because it's just unreal to look at the numbers. Like this is real, it's $216,000 we would not have had if we didn't have multiple people from our company posting on LinkedIn on a regular basis.  I think that's incredible.

I want to draw out a lesson here that maybe you brushed over a gloss over because you don't even notice it yourself, but. There was a campaign or a strategy decision that you guys made that you said we should have been looking at this more often. I don't know why we weren't. Because you trusted yourself because you had done the research because you had seen what had happened.

Now you're ready to scale it up. There was a certain level of trust you put in your marketing team and your team as a whole to say, we don't have to watch this thing like a hawk now  you're a big proponent of podcasting, which is also a long tail result type of activity. So I think you maybe have more of that mentality than the typical CEO, but this is where a lot of marketers get into trouble is they want to do the long tail projects, but they know that it's difficult to prove.

 

The ROI, the success of something. So finding those small wins along the way, but there's also something to be said. For this is a good strategy. You have confidence in it. Let it run for a little while. Like give yourself some time and then go assess it , analyze and see where you can be optimizing because it wouldn't have been worth going and talking to all your friends who are telling you these new tactics and strategies you can use.

If you hadn't gone 90 days down the road, if you hadn't gone 180 days down the road, if you don't give it some legs to run, then you can't see if that's an optimization or if that's a replacement of your strategy. So there's. There's this man, I could just blow up that one little lesson into a million different nuggets, but watching that and just seeing how, you might've glossed over it, but it's really important that we give these campaigns that we believe in time to be successful.

Yeah. They've got to have time and space to breathe. And I'd never even really thought about it before Rex until you said it, but obviously The podcasting channel, it can take time for your podcast guests to turn into revenue for your business. And it's because I'm accustomed to that  thinking, and I just know that this kind of stuff takes time, it did set me up to have the right mindset going into LinkedIn. But it's also just, it's really fun, and when you got multiple people on your team, like I'm constantly tagging other people in our team in posts that I think they would think is interesting.

 We're engaging with each other's content. It's just having fun. I think a lot of people approach LinkedIn like it's this buttoned up, stuffy platform and it absolutely does not have to be. It can be really fun. Let your personality come out. The posts that do the best are posts that are really vulnerable or posts that are a gift or a meme or something light hearted and I think you see that  in Sarah Brazier's content, you see it in a lot of folks content. And so, you don't have to take yourself super serious when you're activating the personal brands or the personal profiles of people on your team, but let them be themselves.

And I think you'd be hard pressed to do this for six months and look back and wish you would have been invested somewhere else because if your buyers are on LinkedIn, there's so much opportunity organically right now, it's insane. One, one thing, Rex that we were talking about offline, that I want to make sure to mention here.

And it's an evolution of our thinking around this. So I camp out pretty squarely and talking about one topic, the topic of B2B podcasting. But Dan on our team talks about a lot of different things related to digital marketing. He's a marketer and Logan talks about, sometimes B2B podcasting.

Sometimes they'll talk about some different marketing things. Sometimes they'll talk about customer experience cause that's his role now. But we found that. The more focused my content stays on one topic. The more people are able to associate my name with a particular thing. And so now we're taking our LinkedIn game to the next level and saying, okay, Dan, what is that topic for you that we want your name to be synonymous with?

Thought leadership? Is it. Account-based marketing, what is the thing that we want Dan to be associated with? What is the topic that we want Logan to be associated with, and starting to just add more focus to their personal content strategy.  And I think we're going to see some enormous results from doing that we're already getting, hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue attributed to this channel over the course of a quarter. What can we do if we start getting even more reach because people and more brand affinity, because people are associating them with things that.

Podcasting happens to be, closely tied to ABM. It's closely tied to thought leadership. It's closely tied to content marketing, these topics that we've been touching on sporadically, but being more intentional and adding more focus and tying specific names and faces from our team with the specific topics, one it's greatly beneficial for their career.

So even if they leave Sweet Fish a year from now, and if Dan is known as the account based marketing guy, he's going to be able to write his ticket. Yeah. With a variety of software companies that are going to want somebody that understands ABM, like the back of their hand.  Same with Logan, same with any other evangelist on our team that we help them define okay, this is the swim lane that we think you can swim in the best.

And yeah, it's a win for them. And it's obviously a huge win for the company while they're at the company. Doesn't that make perfect sense with what we know about every other channel in marketing, right? The more focused you can be on the thing that's going to benefit your audience.

 

The more specific you can stay. The better. Certainly there's some benefit to, keeping market awareness and going and grabbing new topics and making sure you're speaking to things that people are concerned about or interested in now, but becoming an expert is a thing that takes a great deal of effort and time.

And if you can accelerate that by focusing on your area of expertise, it's going to just, it's going to accelerate the rate at which people start to recognize you for that thing. And I can tell you. I've never said anyone's name about B2B podcasting more than I've said yours, and I've never recommended someone's like marketing group or, his very tactical information than Dave Gerhardt.

And I've never recommended more. How do you share with your CEO? What marketing's really like videos and then Chris Walker, they're very clearly focused on those things and the benefits are very tangible as you're seeing in the revenue side, which is. Super exciting. So now we've already broken down.

What would you do differently if you could do it again? Cause you're still doing it, this is not a one and done campaign. This isn't something you might bring up next quarter. We're going to throw it in the budget. Like you're doing it today. Yeah. let's say have the results from this influenced other strategies or other campaigns or other channels that you're working in other than LinkedIn kind of personal side.

Yeah. So there are a couple of different things that I'll say there. One thing that we've started doing really we came to this conclusion independent of realizing that LinkedIn was working so well, but We're starting to do original research, so we're going back to all of our B2B growth our podcasts guests, and we're asking them the same set of 10 to 15 questions.

You are a part of that. And so we're going back and asking all these questions, we're having it chopped up and we've got little timestamps for every person's answer. And our team in the next couple of weeks is actually gonna to be going through and analyzing all of the answers.

So questions like, what is your most successful marketing channel? What's been the most helpful book on marketing that you've read? What is a trend in B2B marketing that you think is way overblown or should not be talked about as much? What's something that's underrated, something that you think should be getting more talk time that isn't being talked about?

And we're already noticing some really cool trends just by doing that research. And I think it's going to fuel that much more content for the personal brands on our team that are posting content on a regular basis. Now we've got research that's going to be really interesting. First party data.

 Yeah. So I'm really excited about that, we should be done with our first original research project in the next two or three weeks. I don't know when this will go live, but hopefully we'll be done and it will be shipped in March, but it's not just a matter of doing the report and shipping the report.

Knowing that each report is probably going to have 30 or 40 different LinkedIn status updates that multiple people on our team are going to be able to post. And I think that's just modern marketing, right? Like I think we used to think about things in terms of, oh, we put all this time and effort and energy into one thing, we do this launch and then it's over. Where this one original research project that we've been working on for the last several months, we're going to be getting mileage out of this going into 2022, because we're still going to be posting about it, even though it launched back in March of 2021.

So I'm really excited about that. The other thing I'll mention Rex, and this is a little bit off of what you asked, what I want to make this clear. With LinkedIn. I had to, I've preached in B2B podcasting that you don't want your show to be about yourself. You want your show to be about your ideal buyer and what their expertise is because it's similar to what you're doing with this show, right?

If you made this podcast squarely about. Email signatures. Nobody would want to listen to this unless they're an email signature vendor that wants to know everything there is to know about this, because that's in reality who would be attracted to listening to a show like this. But instead you are making this show Growth Marketing Camp about your ideal buyer, the person that.

That buys Opensense.  And it's actually a show that a lot of growth marketers are going to listen to or are already listening to. And so the difference in the nuance in knowing that with our show with B2B growth, it's not all about B2B podcasting, but with LinkedIn it's different. I'm not featuring someone else's voice, I'm sharing my own voice on LinkedIn.

I'm not trying to do ABM and build relationships with my ideal clients by featuring them as a guest on my show. Like I am with my podcast, on LinkedIn, I'm writing from my perspective, I'm writing from my place of expertise. And so, I think it's just important to note those two things like With your podcast absolutely make it about your ideal buyer. If you serve higher ed marketers, you should be launching the higher ed marketing podcast. You should not be launching a podcast about CRM or whatever it is the thing that you do, but you absolutely can talk about CRM and the nuances of CRM and different things like that through your personal profile on LinkedIn.

I've just found that, that little nuance there, has been a game changer for us, as we've approached both of those channels separately. It's critical that we understand the differences there. I totally get you there. I love that the distinction, and I think there'll be really useful for our audience.

So let's zoom out and talk about growth marketers as a whole, as we've already mentioned, like this is a mentality of growth. What's one thing that you would say, Hey, we've got to stop doing this as growth marketers, or maybe one thing that we should start doing that isn't very common. Other than obviously the thing that we're breaking down today from your campaign, what are some other ideas there?

I think you touched on a great one earlier, Rex, not expecting, not going into something, thinking that it's going to produce results in 30 days, but really giving campaigns space to Giving them the space. They need to see if it's actually gonna work or not. The other thing that I have been talking a lot about Rex and I think applies here.

 

I think we need to get more. Focused and intentional on developing our points of view, like so much of growth marketing has to do with content now. And I think we're looking at different. Like how can we get the most we can out of Reddit, or how can we squeeze the juice? Get all the juice from the squeeze from Twitter.

 

How can we look at these different channels? What can we be doing with email? But at the end of the day, if you don't have a strong and distinctive point of view about something, then nobody's going to really respond regardless of whether you're doing it on Tik ToK or Clubhouse or, whatever the latest social tool is.

 

You have to have strong points of view. And I think you can do that for yourself and for other people on your team that you're activating to do the strategy that we've been talking about here, getting them on LinkedIn and posting from their personal profile by. Asking a series of three questions.

 

One of them is actually the it's very similar to the one you just asked me. What's a commonly held belief about whatever their expertise is that you passionately disagree with. And the second one is what should folks in our space start doing today that they're not doing right now? And then another one is what's something that people should stop doing right now 

 

that they are currently doing, but shouldn't be doing. And if you can get different folks on your team answering those questions, you'll probably realize that  your evangelists the folks that you're wanting to create more content on LinkedIn from their personal profile to advocate for your brand, they've got more than one POV.

 

They've probably got six, seven, eight POV's. Gary Vee has made a name for himself on having 11 or 12. POV's patience hard work. Like all of these things he can hammer on in a lot of different ways and share a lot of different angles. Like you shared perfectly like the, one of the POV's of Chris Walker is like, here's what you need to be showing your CEO, these specific things. So that they get it. And so they start making the right investments in the right things. Gerhardt's big POV's is that copywriting is everything. And so he talks a lot about copywriting and how marketers can be thinking about it differently.

 

So even if this plays out, when you think about any person that comes to mind, when you think of a particular word, the reason that happens is because they have a unique and distinct. Point of view. And so unless we proactively try to develop those point of views for ourselves, for our own personal brand, as well as the folks on our team that we want to start lifting up.

 

Then the content is just going to be flat and it's not going to have a bite to it. And unfortunately there's so much content on the internet right now than in the last year. Content has a bite, unless it's got a very distinct point of view. It's just going to blend in with the crowd and nobody's going to care about what you're saying.

 

  I love that you gave us the actual questions to ask and be thinking about with our, internal folks, because the temptation is to just go pick the most popular viewpoint and say something opposing to it. It's very easy to go out in the market and say, all right, what's everybody's saying about ABM.

 

Hey, you know what I'm going to say, screw ABM, forget these guys. Like I'm going to go say something to oppose, just to be different, just to stand out, just to have somebody pay attention to me. And that's not at all the level of authenticity that you should have in a channel like LinkedIn, where authenticity is King.

 

And that's going to be the winning strategy. I think it's great advice. Very tactical. Those questions I think are very useful and they're definitely why we've deployed them on the show. We've learned a ton from you guys and your team. Just looking at the way that you're managing and overseeing marketing?

 

At your company right now. How big is the team who's responsible for what, obviously, one of the benefits of the strategy we've been talking about is that you've now got many marketers and not so many marketers throughout your org, but from the actual structure of the marketing team today, what does it look like?

 

Yeah, so we have our director of audience growth is Dan. And so he leads the marketing function. We've got a content strategist on his team. That's doing he's. The running point on on the course that we're building around B2B podcasting, as well as the original research that we're doing is a brilliant strategist.

 

His name's Timmy. And then we've got a content writer that does a lot of writing for a bunch of different people on team. Her name is Emily. She doesn't actually sit on the marketing team. She's on our creative. Team. And so she's doing client work cause we're an agency and client work in addition to writing a lot of the stuff that's, helping us rank organically on Google.

 

As well as, doing a lot of the stuff that we're doing on social. So she's involved there and then we've got a contract writer that we use for a lot of our social content as well.  So it's Dan plus. Three. And we're driving really incredible results from a marketing perspective with a marketing team of less than five and not even our content strategist is part-time and both writers.

 

One is a contractor one's full-time, but she's only spending, probably a quarter of her time on marketing. So I think you can do this stuff without a ton of resources. And it's. Proving to work really well for us. I'm hearing that consistently. That's been definitely a theme in this show and the folks that we've interviewed is you can do a lot with a little, if you're focused, if you know your strategy and you know where you want to place your bets, you don't have to place your bets everywhere.

 

You should be conscious of the market around you and where the opportunities lie, but go pick some places, go be there, go do some things and let them sit for a while and produce some results and optimize over time. Yeah. Great lesson now, looking at, The broader market we've named half a dozen incredible folks.

 

Has there been anybody who you haven't maybe named already that we should be following on LinkedIn or maybe even invite on the show? Yeah. Who have I been getting a lot of value from on LinkedIn? Chris Walker is so freaking good. John Rougeux.  His name is spelled R O U G E U X. He is the VP of marketing at BombBomb, he is putting out some phenomenal content, specifically around category design and category creation.

 

Nice. Another guy at BombBomb, Ethan Beute. He is the Chief Evangelist at BombBomb. He's putting out some fantastic stuff around customer experience specifically. So those two guys come to mind. I'm really liking what Chantelle Marcelle is putting out she's at Herrmann. I think a manager of growth marketing, maybe there I'm seeing her a lot on Twitter and on LinkedIn, Maya Grossman is another one. She's a VP of marketing at a company called Jumpstart. But she does a lot of stuff around or a lot of her content is around building your marketing career.

 

And so it seems like every other post she writes goes mega viral.  But so yeah, those would be a few names that I think. Would absolutely be worth to follow on LinkedIn. That's fantastic. We appreciate it. I'm sure everybody listening is appreciative of all those ideas because we all need inspiration.

 

Marketing is a very creative effort. Even as much as we try and make it an engine, it there's a creative element to this thing that we all love and enjoy. So I think it's why a lot of us are in marketing today. So thank you for those ideas, James, couldn't be more excited to have you on the show. 

Maybe my favorite interview cause you and I are friends, but also a little nerve wracking because you're like the podcast guru. So thank you for joining us. Thank you for making time, man. Just a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much Rex. I appreciate it.


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