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How SEO Flipped This Team’s Funnel and Led To 500% Growth

Rex Biberston
Mar 30, 2021 9:10:03 AM

Growth Marketing Camp, Ep. 10

How SEO Flipped This Team’s Funnel and Led To 500% Growth

When Jeremy Collins stepped into the EVP of Marketing role at Azuga, 80% of the demand was generated by third parties like vendors and partners. In the ensuing 14 months, Jeremy built a foundation of SEO excellence with goals of just 5% improvement every week. By focusing on the consistent incremental wins, he’s seen 500% growth. The company now owns its own demand gen destiny and is seriously benefiting from the results.

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Here's what you can expect on today's episode:

  • 8:30 - Tailor your customers journey through keyword entry points
  • 20:23 - What wins can you get today that will get you 5% more next week?
  • 33:32 - Avoid this guaranteed recipe for upsetting sales

Read the full transcript:

Okay, welcome to another episode of Growth Marketing Camp. I am joined here by Jeremy Collins, the Executive Vice President of Marketing from Azuga . Jeremy. Thanks for coming on the show, man. excited to have you. Yeah. Thanks for having me good to talk to you. So I wanted to invite you to the show because we've actually had a chance to work together before.

And I remember seeing how critically you looked at campaign structure broadly. Like you had a really good universal mind for strategy and where campaigns played, but even you could get into the nitty-gritty of specifically like tactics and messaging. And it's interesting. You're actually, you're definitely a growth marketer, right?

If this show's about growth marketing, you definitely qualify, but you've also got a sales background. So I wanted to ask you, do you think the sales experience has influenced your marketing leadership and even tactics and execution? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, for me, I definitely view all marketing campaign strategies across like an end to end funnel.

There's not a real separation, I think that's actually key. And one of the slippery slopes, a marketer can get into where it's like, Oh, I do this. I create content. You know, And sale, sells the leads I produced, and there's a clear handoff and process to that, which on paper makes sense.

But when you think about, especially like a B2B software buyer's journey, it's not as clear cut. So you have to look at the end to end funnel and realize that buyers can jump around the funnel. And bottom of funnel, buyers can become middle of funnel and. Buyers that you never even had before lead right down to the bottom.

And so when I look at any marketing strategy, I always want to tie it to not only the sales results, but all the way downstream to second year renewal, third year renewal and the expansion opportunities that we have. And that might just be a little bit of, I can't get my sales blood out of me, I think at the end of the day, I'll always be in sales at heart.

And quite honestly, marketing is an extension of sales and sales is an extension of marketing. And, you need both to succeed. So yeah, going after it from the same viewpoint of results is definitely helpful. That's a good frame of reference, always thinking of the entire funnel and even into those expansions and renewals.

That's good. I can see how your experience would play into that and make you a better marketer. You've been, in MarTech in the past you were at Act-on. You've worked alongside our guests, Kevin Bobowski from episode number 4, a couple of times, including at Act-On. So I'm sure you've got a million campaigns you could talk to us about that have been successful.

But you're at Azuga now. And I think we're going to be talking is your efforts there and what has been really successful for you? So talk to us a little bit about the shape of this thing. Cause it's not a, traditional campaign. It's not start and finish. It's not A and B what was it that you want to cover?

Yeah, I think I started at Azuga, a year and two months ago or so and I had the blessing of starting, right before a pandemic. It's fun. Hopefully people get to never experience that in their life. But I think for me and our industry that we plan in our customers.

It was actually a blessing in disguise and it worked out great and it really highlighted, something that I already think about on everything that I do. Again, we kind of talked about the results side, but how do we tie marketing budget to ROI and connect all those dots so that we can make good decisions?

And, we could go down the various campaigns, any marketing teams will be running 40 50 campaigns at once. Sure. But when I look at a high level of something that quite honestly, any company can do at any point, regardless of being in a pandemic or being in, the greatest market ever area of recession doesn't matter SEO.

Is only, going to create a stable environment, not only for the short-term, but for the long-term and support all of those layers of the funnel and making sure you have the eyeballs kind of in those moments that matter. So I think focusing in a little bit on that we can take it in a bunch of different directions.

But I think it might be interesting for your audience to kind of hear about that side of it. Yeah it's great that you're bringing up SEO because it is like you're saying the foundation actually on episode 2 of the show, we had Jaime who's the CMO at Lionbridge and he was talking about how most people are.

It's about half of the people currently in business and leadership positions. It's becoming true that we grew up searching for things online. That's where we go for information. We don't go to the encyclopedia that our parents bought from a door to door salesman, like. We're literally going to the internet to gain knowledge.

And so mastering SEO is such a critical foundation for our marketing philosophy and strategy. That like, this is where people go to get information for the rest of their lives, likely unless something disrupts search. Right. Which is fascinating to think about. So talk to us about your audience. What are you guys selling to whom I have a good sense of it's in fleet management, but talk to us a little bit about the audience there and what you guys are offering them, because then we can shape the discussion around SEO for that.

Yeah. And actually before I talk about the audience one thing that is very interesting on SEO and it's also kind of an important nuance. It's like, there's the SEO strategy and the literal SEO, but there's so many branches of that, that people are not thinking about like messaging. So how do you develop your messaging?

There's the sales alignment piece. You know, There's a marketing approach to it, but I would argue that a good chunk of that actually comes down to SEO. And that's kind of your validation point in your messaging and aligning your messaging to what people are looking for. It's so obvious. It's like, if I'm looking for, and this gets into our audience, if I'm looking for fleet management software, what type of terms do I use?

To say fleet management software, and you can very quickly develop your kind of content, pillars, your messaging just by grouping in all the keywords. And it starts to shine a light on what your audience and what your market is telling you what you are. Because we can get overly creative with calling ourselves, whatever we want to call ourselves but at the end of the day.

If that doesn't make sense to the buyer and that's not their language, then your messaging could look great in a slide deck. But, and on your website, but nobody will ever find it. So it all, it's another good example of where, like none of these campaigns work in a silo, they start to branch off and feed one another.

We have fleet management software as our core product. We also had, we were the last couple of years really developed or InsureTech. Which basically continues to have the foundation of fleet management, but offering more solutions to insurance carriers. So, you know, we do over 7 billion data points against all these vehicles and drivers.

Every single year and all of that data is really powerful for how insurance carriers make decisions on how are they going to write a policy for a fleet company? How are they going to process those claims? What's the risk assessment. And so our in users kind of play in a few different segments between the literal fleet management software to the fleet organizations.

To the insurance providers that are writing policies. And by default, we both are going after the same audience. And we've also entered into a field service management, which is a extension of our fleet product. Okay. So you've got several, I mean, a few core audiences here that you're going after.

And how do you think about that from an SEO perspective? Is it, this is primary, secondary tertiary. Do you run them all at the same time? I'm really curious to hear how you've built that out. Yeah. So like I would frame them up as entry points into the market. So, for us, I mean, if someone wants to come through an entry point, say for field service management, then we want to tailor their journey for field service management and bring them through to fleet, bring them through to helping them with their insurance policies, bring them through to integrating their dash cams on the vehicles.

And so, we have about seven different entry points that we look at. And so we want to gain market share across all of them. And so while fleet management may be the logical terms to go after. And it's what the company was built on. We now have the luxury of going after all these other entry points and bringing their journey through to the other ones.

So being highly relevant to what they're looking for it's less about what we need. It's more about what the user at that moment at time is looking for. And can we get their eyeballs right then and bring them down the journey. Sure. So you've been there for just over a year. What was it like initially going in?

How did you assess things from an SEO perspective? Because it gets a little tactical here. Like, was it, Hey, we're at a certain level of acceptability or did you scrap everything and start over like you as a leader coming in and deciding, Hey, we want to emphasize SEO as a critical component of our marketing strategy.

Yeah. So, specific to Azuga. I mean, we. Relied to some degree on third-party lead generation, which I don't think is unique. And cause quite honestly you think about going back to my initial comment on tying your budget to results in a lot of good ways that makes the calculations very easy, right?

And I know if I buy a lead for a hundred dollars, I have my sales conversion rates on the other side. And while I have ROI and I can just keep doing it. And so I'm not against that process. I just think that's one piece of the pie within the engine strategy. So for us we had to do a lot we had to define what the SEO strategy was going to be looking through what was already working.

Like, luckily we had a lot of data already within the customer base. To help define who our customers were, what they were looking for, but we didn't actually have the tracking set up when I got here. So, first of all, it's like, can we set up the systems for success? And, can we validate that data with our customer base, with our successes on and wins, making sure we're aligned with the sales team.

So we don't just create another lead, but it's a lead that we know will never convert. And, it's that whole sales and marketing friction we're selling, sale says marketing can't give me a good lead. And marketing says well I gave you a thousand of them. So, you should figure it out like.

From the get-go, we didn't want to get into that environment. It's like we're coming at this together. We'll develop the strategies. We'll develop the content, but there's a lot of validation and confirmation points that we aligned with sales on. So after setting up the systems making sure that we could essentially redesign the website for the user, make sure it's set up for conversion with the right conversion points at the right time.

And then it's about creating our content pillars which at a high level are kind of our entry points in the market. But within those content pillars, branches off all kinds of subtopics and really SEO after you've worked through all of that, then you to me get into SEO which is really content.

So you get past all the technical hurdles, all the reporting hurdles, all the alignment hurdles, and now you're into building content. And because you've set up the foundation and the framework now, you know, what's working, what's not working what you should double down on, making sure that all of your keywords are defined and tracked on rankings.

Within the pages and then also aligning that to your SCM strategy so that SCM and SEO start to work together in a lot of ways. SCM feeds the strategy for SEO and vice versa. Sure. Because you're getting those additional data points seeing what's working what's converting. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Interesting.

And what did that journey look like for you guys in terms of, I dunno, what are the KPIs that you really focused on when you first set this up? Are you looking at just traffic? Obviously you're looking all the way down the funnel of the conversions, but what are maybe those key stopping points along the way?

Yeah, I think that, you know, if we think about this again, as a funnel, all the way through and more so not necessarily a performance funnel, but it's more of a timing funnel because there's certain indicators that you need, like revenue that you're not going to get on day one, but you can get the traffic in leading indicator day one.

But it has to play out all the way through to answer the question. Do we double down, is it working? Is it not working? Yeah. So it's all the things you would think of there. Which is easier said than done. Let's think about you know, we have at any given point 200 to 3000 keywords that we're going after that we're tracking closely, how do you track the

keyword ranking of keyword number 1,422. And yesterday it reduced 50 rankings and now it was on page one. Now it's on page seven and once you get to page three, you might as well be on page 1 million. So basically the way we set that up is basically an early warning system. So we defined what our acceptable thresholds would be within each keyword and then set up triggers to know, okay, this has now dipped 5% or it's increased 5%.

And then that really gave us a prioritization ability to be able to take the right actions at the right time. And get those indicators in real time versus having that surprised three months later. And it's like, Hey, did anybody notice that we lost all of our traffic on this keyword, which then resulted in all the traffic to this page, which then resulted in X amount of less leads for sales.

Now that we're talking about kind of how it goes down to sales. Is there any conversation with them as you're building it? Are you sharing that content? Like in addition to the, what we call it, the SEO juice, right. In addition to the juice that you can get from the squeeze, is there some other side of it that they're benefiting from?

Like, obviously you're creating content that's valuable to the buyers and you're thinking top of funnel, but also mid funnel. also bottom of funnel also beyond where does that conversation take place? So, yeah, this is another good reminder on why SEO, everything you do for SEO is not only paying off for SEO.

That might be why you're doing it. That might give you your return, but there's so many ancillary benefits from it. So I'll give you an example on the sales side, if you're creating really good content for your user. And that content is set up for conversion there. It's interesting. It's informational.

It's highlighting the product in the right way and balancing that with the content itself. Then you're also creating sales collateral, whether you realize it or not, and they now have more and more content to produce for their prospects. And again, all the way down stream. I would say like, it's interesting, no prospects.

Used to submit a form on our site after they've talked to sales now, I mean, we have 20 prospects a day submitting more forms that are technically meant for new leads, but it's just interesting, good content or they're engaging in chat. And so we're helping that deal velocity. So our initial priority might be let's capture the keywords that we know will create demand.

But downstream, we're also creating a wealth of content for sales to help them in their deals and create more deal velocity. Yeah. You're effectively greasing the skids with content. That totally makes sense. Yeah. That's a huge benefit. Is there a mechanism for sharing that or is it just kind of the expectation that sales goes and gathers that content like pays attention to it?

Or do you have like, maybe even, is it like as tactical as a Slack channel that you drop new articles in? What do you guys do? So within our self enablement strategy, we really feed the content there. And so, again, it comes back to the technologies and setting up a system of success. As we create new content, we publish that basically across our knowledge base.

And then set up a system in Salesforce so that there's a flag there. And, let's say you're talking to a HVAC company. You don't really need content on pest control. So we want to surface that content through HVAC related content. So we want to make it easy to find and activate the content.

So we don't want to waste a sales reps time searching for something. And that's it, if they do, I mean, well, we actually find it as, you know, like you mentioned if a buyer like any human being, if they have a question in their mind it's at the point now where they're they want to self-serve themselves.

So they're not even necessarily reacting to the sales rep. And that's the interesting part here is if you can give them an asset, the buyer, an asset to go in and actually answer these questions on their own, they're actually more likely to buy from the sales rep. Versus always having to do the back and forth emails.

And can we set up that call? Obviously we want to set up the call, but we also want to make sure that in between those calls, there's a website that's going to support the buyer in their journey. Yeah. I mean, it says a lot about the company that you're buying from when they have that content that you can serve yourself.

But also when they've clearly demonstrated they're experts and can answer your questions because there used to be this magic to the salesperson that like, we held all the answers and we held the keys to the kingdom. And you had to ask us because we were the only ones who had the data or the information or the knowledge.

And there's often more of a transactional nature to sales these days, especially with inside selling you're not in person, you're not in their shop, closing the door, shaking their hand. Like there's just a difference to it that. You want to feel comfortable that when that sales rep exits the conversation, when he or she is no longer a part of it that you have, a whole company behind you, that's really going to support you from a product or service standpoint.

So it makes sense that we want to serve ourselves and that the SEO valuable content that you're creating to get top of funnel is going to help us bottom of funnel. That totally makes sense. Okay. You know where we can spot these trends deal cycles on SEO keywords. So as we grew the business and as we get more demos into the pipeline and we start to see that pipeline really grow last year and continue that kind of exponential growth.

We started to see a major uptick that correlated with that growth on the keyword Azuga reviews. And so what people were doing is they were hearing the demo from the sales rep hearing. This is great, like I'm emotionally attached to this. Like I need this, but I better do my due diligence, which is no longer.

Let me go talk to Dan down the street and see his experience. It's I'm just going to ask Google what the experience is. And so they type in Azuga reviews. And so that's just like one small example where you start to see SEO and your strategy around SEO impacting the sales team downstream and through that deal velocity.

Yeah. That makes perfect sense. And we've been teasing out all the excitement and positive reaction you've had and your team has had to SEO and focusing and building around that. Can you share some of the wins, some of the metrics maybe, or at least some of the stories that have come out of that?

Yeah. I mean, I'll go back, like from a percentage standpoint when I got here, we were producing about 80% indirect leads and the other 20% were coming direct through the kind of normal channels you would think of website SEM email, they're filling out a form within the Azuga site it's not coming from a third-party affiliate partner.

And we've now gotten to a point where that's flipped. And so the volume of those third-party leads actually has gone up a little bit because we've actually been able to target and renegotiate with those vendors and very aligned with our vendors so that we only produce good leads. And that's actually resulted in more leads that the reps can work.

So when I say lead, I should clarify, I mean, a qualified lead a workable lead that a sales rep can work. I don't just mean. In the CRM system, there's a lead record. Contact record. Yeah. We don't consider that a lead. And so everything's reversed there, which, what does that mean? It means we're in control of our own destiny. Number one, it means we're producing more volume through the funnel.

What it's also allowed us to do from the sales perspective is really align and specialize in all these different areas. So when I got here, the sales team was structured in that. Hey, everyone go after everything and get what you can get. And if you can get some marketing support, great. And we think they need that.

There, there was something coming through, but there wasn't enough consistency to be reliable. How that we have real predictability, real scalability, and we can guarantee results every single month, every single day, every single week. We now can carve out specialized teams, whether that's. Direct inbound, indirect inbound reactivation of inbound or the outbound, specializations by industry.

So we've really been able to fine tune all of those layers and focus in, on being successful. That's really exciting for those of us who are maybe newer to SEO and are unfamiliar with the timelines required. You've been there a year and two months. These things take time. What is the timeline look like for let's say a radical shift.

Let's pretend that we just have to scrap everything and start from scratch. Or we're a brand new company starting from scratch. What is a typical timeline that you expect? So I think it's a slippery slope on accepting defeat on SEO and using almost what could be an excuse. Like, Hey, trust me, it's a long game, right?

Like that it takes a while. That is true. No one can argue that that's also, the benefit is it's a long game and it'll pay off more and more. But I would urge everyone and I urge myself. I urge my team. We're looking to make 5% improvements at the beginning. 5% improvements every single week on a campaign like SEO.

So you really have to prioritize where the search volume is, where you're going to get the most results. What's the competitive nature of that keyword, what's the market look like and where can you capture it? So we're not trying to triple results next week. We're trying to get 5% better.

And quite honestly, over time, we're trying to get 1% better. So once we hit a kind of point of scale, we're only trying to make marginal improvements, but we're making those marginal improvements every day, every hour, every week, it's not a quarterly review. And so I would just focus in on not the big mountain of where can I go and SEO, but what wins can I get today?

That's going to give me 5% more. Next week and find the next 5% after that. And so for us, what's happened is we've seen a 500% increase in results on SEO in a very short amount of time. It doesn't feel short, maybe played into that feels like a long time, 14 months with 500% increases on SEO. You know that starts to really pay off, but it didn't happen overnight and we didn't try and make it happen overnight.

We just tried to improve 5% every week. That's a really good way to look at it. And I'm curious, how have you structured your team? Kind of broadly, but then specifically scoped down to SEO, like who handles what, or how many people do you have doing this? Because it's one thing to like mentally say, Oh, we're committing to SEO and we're going to make some things happen and then go asign your people out to a bunch of other resources and projects and campaigns.

So how have you structured the team there? Yeah. I mean, I definitely practice what I preach there. Like what I was talking about on the sales side, how, we've really gotten laser focused and segmented and specialized within the sales team. That was like day one for the marketing team as well, because marketing in general it is tough to assign out roles and responsibilities with conflicting interests and you just have to get stuff done.

And so, it almost becomes an afterthought on who's doing what and when it's a little bit of everyone raising their hand so aligning the teams within that and making sure everyone understands those goals, roles, responsibilities allowed us to do a lot more production. And so from an SEO perspective specifically we have a web developer who has a couple of people working for him so more on the technical side and, refreshing the website, building out the website, and then we only have one content writer.

And you know, we crank out a lot and what I will say, where we do sometimes get into like a team rally. And sometimes I also think this is kind of fun is let's say we want to really go after a keyword. And our one content writer can't just produce enough content. Well, it's like, well, there's 10 of us on our team.

We can all produce one blog post this week. Let's do it and let's be competitive and who's going to get the best blog post out there. And, it's a small thing, but again, we're not looking to solve all of our, performance goals with a blog post. But if all 10 of those combined get 1% better than, you know, we're on the path.

So yeah, we do have to call an audible every once in a while and rally together. But I will say having those very set objectives and tying them to results and the roles and responsibilities of who's doing what is quite honestly the only thing, anything will ever scale. Otherwise everyone has a bunch of ideas.

None of them come through. And you wonder why you didn't hit the number, three months later in the board meeting. Yeah. Okay. I feel like you're the steady hand that's needed at the helm of some of these things. That's really interesting. What are some of the other, maybe break off channels that you're focused on?

Or how else are you splitting up the team? It sounds like you have one person really primarily focused on website revamping one content specialist. Who else is there? What else is the team comprised of? So in terms of those segments too, we also have SMB and enterprise. So the demands and strategies are separated.

Yeah. There's definitely some correlations there and overspill either direction. But you know, like from an ABM perspective, we're not running a tour ABM campaign on SMB. We do targeted personalized campaign. We don't run an ABN campaign like we would with enterprise. So that's separated out.

We have underneath my organization, I also have rev ops and sales enablement. Which is a kind of recent evolution of the teams and structuring based on all of this kind of framework and scalability of what we're doing. So it's all kind of under one umbrella now. And so within rev ops, that's the things like reporting and analytics.

Setting up all of the systems, making sure that they stay set up and nothing breaks and no one knows about it. And database is key for us, so even though we're talking a lot about how does marketing produce demand gen 40 to 50% of our results still come from outbound. And so we really took an effort and, big approach to.

Setting up the outbound teams for success so that you have all their sequences running their email campaigns for them on the front end and the back end, making sure they have the right talk tracks, but almost equally important is that now that you're getting the message on everything, but the leads were quality.

It had verified, validated emails, verified, validated phone numbers everything they need to be successful is there it's accurate and it's ready to go. So, we don't have to waste a bunch of time relying on the sales rep to do admin work. They can just focus on selling. Yeah. That's nice.

I mean, it's great that you get those two kind of other components rolled up underneath your org and it makes a lot of sense, especially given your history, your experience with it. Technically then, so sales enablement does not encompass the BDR SDR outbound function. Does that roll up under your org or is that part of sales?

Yeah. I mean, I treated under rev ops, we're going into a different direction, but like my theory on sales marketing operations, so is they're three distinct orgs and they all work together at every organization, whether it's structured together or not. And so technically for us rev ops and marketing reports up through me, but I definitely treat them as two separate organizations.

Because like, you don't want your ops team to be biased one way or another. So it's more of a technicality to me. They need to keep everyone honest, right? Like, if you're in the marketing side, it's just human nature. You're going to defend whatever marketing strategy you have. And if you're on the sales side of you're doing, the same thing and I've worn both hats and felt the same way, both ways.

So, I really push us to make sure that we keep an unbiased. Source for our operations team. Because that causes them to be more likely to spot those negative and positive trends and really, prioritize correctly and think about the business holistically versus I'm in sales ops, or I'm in marketing ops and I helped marketing and I help sales.

Rev ops helps both. Quite honestly, this is a culture conversation, and we don't have this problem. Like we are very aligned on sales and marketing. But it's so easy to get disconnected and they have performance or attribution. That ops is kind of that third party unbiased almost decision-maker in some of this stuff.

They're like a referee in the ring, I guess, even though we shouldn't be on opposite sides and we shouldn't be fighting, they seem kind of like the people who make the call. Yeah. Yeah. And then in terms of my team too, I also have product marketing. Which feeds again into a lot of this, between messaging competitive insights, enablement, content, all of that.

That's awesome. Okay. And then let's say if you were going to do this all over again at Azuga in particular, like what have you learned from the SEO strategy that maybe would accelerate it or would make it. Easier more fun. Heck I don't know. It seems like it's going really well for you guys with 500% as the big figure you're putting up here.

But is there anything you learned that you would maybe do differently next time? Yeah, I think I've learned this same lesson, like five times and the best lessons go that way. It's interesting that a it's a learning because I should know this. But you get so laser focused on the one you want to win.

In, all, you can, when it's almost just like a personal vendetta against that keyword, like I have to win this and you're not going to defeat me that you lose sight of the bigger picture and the bigger opportunities you may have. And so, yeah, I think that's just something that sometimes you have to remind yourselves and just say that it's not all gonna work.

You know, Our time is better spent in this area. And so, again, it comes back to the systems of success, really committing to what your thresholds are, what you're willing to do, the time and scope that it's going to take and the roles and responsibilities who's going to do the work and with the timelines and the results side.

And when something doesn't work. It's okay. To abandon it, shift, focus, and pivot to something that will. And is it a failure? Yeah, but I mean, of course, like you're doing like 50,000 things at once. Like  all bound to fail ones. Yeah. I think that's something, especially doing it from the new side.

You want all wins, right? No one wants to come to the table with, Hey, we launched this whole strategy and nine out of the 10 failed. So yeah. Yeah. You've dropped a lot of great ideas on us and I'm sure the audience is going to love this, but thinking about growth, marketers in particular and things that they maybe.

Are doing now that they should stop doing. And I feel like you've hinted at some of these maybe throughout the conversation or things that they're not doing yet, that they should start doing. Do you have one or both of those in mind? The first thing that comes to mind, maybe it's, cause we've talked a lot on the sales and marketing alignment piece, but never walk into a meeting with sales and tell them how many leads you produce when sales hasn't hit their number and give yourself a Pat on the back on how great you did and never tie it to the revenue.

That is a guaranteed recipe for upsetting sales and causing misalignment. That's not even necessarily misaligned. It's just against personal nature. We're all human beings here working together. And so always keep that in mind, like whatever we do on the marketing side at the end of the day.

Especially when we're talking about demand and we're talking to very demand, heavy conversation. Like we can probably have another podcast on brand and another guest on expansion. But if we're talking about demand from a marketing perspective, if you're not talking about revenue, You've completely missed the boat and you're pissing off sales, whether you realize it or not, like they're all talking about you and how you don't get it and you don't understand.

So that would be my piece of advice. And again, like being on both ends of the spectrum, I've seen it both ways and it's okay to give bad news to sales. It's like, Hey, if you didn't hit the number, we got the leads, we got the demos. They haven't converted yet. So we're really trained to, you know, fine tune deal velocity right now and help you there.

So we can ultimately all hit our revenue number, like put it into context. Yeah. I mean, even that you say we're trying to help you with deal velocity, that seems like a thing that a marketer could say, well, that's sales is problem. Right? Deal velocity. It's like, well, that's a sales. Oh, sorry. It hit your section of the funnel.

That's no longer. I mean, that's just the whole mentality you bring to the table. So. As growth marketers, let's stop walking into meetings or logging into zoom calls and touting the number of leads we got. If sales didn't hit their figure, I think that's a great component too. Just the nature.

You say like growth marketer. What are we growing? Are we trying to grow leads to trying to grow a database? or are we trying to grow Revenue? Right. You can't be a growth marketer and not talk about revenue. Revenue is the ultimate metric. Now don't take me too. Literally. There's so many leading indicator metrics and early morning systems and KPIs that you have to track all the way through to get you to that ultimate number.

Honestly, that's just the output, it's all of the inputs that gets you there. You just have to understand how those inputs feed the ultimate output of revenue. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for joining us in my final question here is. Who are some marketers who you follow who've maybe even worked with in the past, who you think we should be following, looking at even having a conversation with on the show?

Yeah, it's a  good question. I don't know if I follow a specific marketer per se, but I'm always interested, like whether it's LinkedIn or podcasts or anything, topically, you know, sorry to all the influence marketers out there I have no loyalty to you. I just care about the content.

I just care about what's being produced and maybe be right back to the beginning for us. Like it's about the content. It's not always about the brand that will come. And so, I care about the content being produced and there's so much of it nowadays. That every day I can consume a 10 minute piece of content that might make me think just a little bit differently.

And so no individual, the call-out unfortunately, but yeah, there's so much good information out there and marketers are happy to share it. So, I follow everybody. That's awesome. I love that. You're no respecter of individual persons. You just love the content. I guess the last question I should start asking folks here is clubhouse or no clubhouse, man.

Are you on the clubhouse? So I'm on clubhouse and I've had a debate with this on my son. Who's 13. And he tells me that it's a, that's just like a business saying that nobody's ever going to use.  And it doesn't make any sense. So the 13 year old says it's no good for me. I actually think it's gone to the extreme to too much content and now we have too much.

That's not focused in. So I'm on the fence. I think it's very interesting. I think the ideas there, actually less about the actual platform, more about their go-to market strategy. I love their go-to market strategy that they did. Yeah. It's genius. I mean, the way that they've gotten the kind of referral kind of viral invite only kind of thing.

Yeah. I had to get a logged in, right. You know everyone's talking about it. It's like, okay, what am I missing here? I got to go check this thing out. I think I gave it a good shot. We'll see where it evolves to what it is today is not what it'll be five years from now, but I love the go-to market strategy.

You probably need to fine tune the content a little bit more. Love it. Love it. Love your take on that, Jeremy. Thanks so much for joining us, man. We appreciate your time. Yeah. Thank you.


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